Jonathan Kitchen
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Amrita Roy, The Pragmatic Optimist, joins Rob Isbitts to discuss why she’s neutral on S&P 500 right now (2:25). Short-term interest rates have peaked, long-term rates should normalize; bullish on (TLT) (6:15). Macro investing, equity selection: Zscaler, GitLab, and Pinterest (17:40).
Transcript
Rob Isbitts: Rob Isbitts here on the other side of the microphone as they say. You’ve heard me interviewed by the amazing Rena Sherbill from Seeking Alpha before. I am going to be asking the questions this time.
So today, I am with Amrita Roy. Amrita is known by her own name on Seeking Alpha. She also has a very strong and growing following on the Substack platform as The Pragmatic Optimist.
Frankly, I chose to interview Amrita because I think she is one of many under the radar talents that have come to the Seeking Alpha landscape. Away we go. Amrita Roy, welcome to Investing Experts Podcast and Seeking Alpha.
Amrita Roy: Thank you so much for having me. I am very excited.
RI: Great. Me too, because we’ve had a chance to talk a couple of times leading up to this, but let’s head right into it. There’s a lot we’re going to cover and we’re going to try to cover it in fairly short order.
So first, and I think I’m going to maybe steal a page from Rena’s book here. Give me a brief global market view and we’ll dive deeper into it later. And I would put it to you this way, on a scale of 1 to 100, where a 100 is being max return potential and 0 is very high risk, give me a number. Okay. I have something called the ROAR Score that I use on my thing, Sungarden Investment Publishing and ETFYourself.com, which is where folks find me.
So I’m kind of applying the same code, if you will, the same spectrum to you. So 100 is kind of max return potential, all-in type thing; and 0 is, “Hey, it’s really risky, very little exposure.” So let’s start with the S&P 500, 0 to 100, where do you stand as we sit here in mid-March?
AR: Sure. So with S&P 500, I will actually give it a 50. So I’m neutral on S&P 500 right now. The reason why is because A, Q4 earnings are over. There has been no material downward revision to earnings for the next year and the following year. Interest rates are at 5.25% and the overall narrative right now is for interest rates to stay higher for longer because inflation is reaccelerating and employment remains to be strong.
So my thinking is that until we see material downward revision in earnings or we see a material reacceleration in inflation, the markets are going to continue to price in a soft landing scenario for the market, in which case there is still potential for an upside to potentially maybe 5,300 to 5,500. But downward risks are increasing at this moment by a lot. So as a result, I think given sort of the magnitude of the tug-of-war that is happening between the upside and the downside, I am neutral and I would rate it a 50 at this moment.
RI: So here’s a follow-up question that I didn’t expect to ask, but I thought of as you were speaking. So if you’re at a 50, it sounds to me like, if we had asked you this question a few months ago, you probably would have been a little higher than 50. In other words, you’re 50 and trending down.
AR: Yes, you’re correct. If you would have asked me six months ago, I would have rated it much higher. Absolutely.
RI: Got it. Got it. And you would have been right in terms of the S&P 500. Now, we all know that the S&P and the NASDAQ, the NASDAQ has been driving the S&P and the S&P has been driving investor optimism. I think I heard something today where year-to-date, the four stocks have basically accounted for all the gains in the (QQQ). That’s even narrower than it was before.
So let me just ask you the same question, 1 to a 100, or 0 to a 100 on the broader U.S. and non-U.S. stock market. So basically, everything except the S&P 500, given that it’s so heavily concentrated.
AR: Sure. So when it comes to the non-broader U.S. stock market, we know that, for example, UK, Germany, Japan, they’re already in a recession. At the same time, like China is trying to do like QE type activities to rejuvenate their economy. And at the same time, we are seeing that these forces are sort of pushing global capital inflows to India at the moment. So there’s a lot of like forces at play at the moment So it’s kind of hard to just pinpoint that it’s going to be a buy or a sell, or a bull or a bear. I think it’s selective.
So my thinking is that non-U.S. market, I am bullish on India. So I would rate it probably a 70 or 80. I am also bullish at a large scale on like emerging markets in general, because I think we might see a reacceleration this year as well with the dollar declining. So I would be a bull on emerging markets complex in general as well. So rating it probably in the same range of 70 to 80.
RI: And if you are trying to open the proverbial can of worms for us to talk quite a bit more in the near future, you just did because I have been working on a lot of kind of single country ETF work. And it’s kind of amazing what is out there and also how diverse the performance is. You don’t get a lot of correlation from country to country. So I’m going to come back to that if you don’t mind a little bit today and maybe in the future.
So let’s finish this rapid fire. Short-term rates and long-term rates, 100 being max opportunity, 0 being max risk.
AR: Sure. So short-term interest rates, we know that inflation is once again reaccelerating over the last two readings. Rates remain high. The Fed is not budging on its stance that rates need to remain where it is right now. There is a slight possibility, though the markets are no longer pricing that in that there might be one more rate hike. But where my thinking is that rates have — short-term rates have peaked.
So with the T-Bills yielding around 5.25% at the moment, that’s as good as it gets. And my thinking would also be that, with the growing risks in S&P 500, when you’re getting a risk-free rate of 5.2% in T-Bills or short-term rates, I would rate short-term rate higher than S&P 500. So maybe in the range of 60 to 70. So that’s short-term rates.
On the long-term rates, once again, my thinking is that the longer interest rates remain high, the larger the chances of a slowdown that we will see. So my thinking, once again, with long-term interest rates is that we have seen the peak in this cycle. It should normalize, it should go down. So as a result, I would say that when it comes to specifically (TLT), I am also a bull in TLT at the moment. I see upside once again, rating it between 70. Yeah, I would rate it at around 70 at the moment.
RI: Great. Okay. So you give me a couple more follow-up questions, but let’s finish this segment if we can. And then choose these however you wish. Junk bonds, commodities, and the U.S. dollar were the last three I wanted to get your input on.
AR: Sure. Junk bonds, once again, my thought is that the longer interest rates remain high, the greater the risk of defaults. I am not personally participating in junk bonds at all. I think from a risk reward, it doesn’t make sense. I would rate it as a 2.
Commodities is a little bit more complex, similar to like emerging markets or other countries, because in commodities we are seeing sort of the Bloomberg Commodity Index, which just broke even for the year. There are quite a lot of forces at play. Within the commodities, I would say I am bullish on gold and I’m bullish on oil, specifically.
And as for the U.S. dollar, I am not optimistic. I believe with the rates at — with the rates peaking at the moment, the U.S. dollar sees no more upside. So the U.S. dollar, I would rate it probably 0 to 1, with no upside potential that I can see in the next 12 to 24 — in the next 12 months.
RI: On a scale of 0 to a 100, 0 to 1 is probably not too much of a difference, huh? So that’s – so no, but I get, I look, I want to just keep agreeing with you, but when that’s the case, I’m going to, I mean, I’m a chartist at heart as folks know if they’ve listened to me on the other side of these discussions. And I have to tell you the thing that, I mean, one of the things I do in my weekly is, I look at the top 10, what I consider to be macro markets through ETFs and the one that keeps rising up the ranks. I mean, T-Bills have been at the top ever since I started doing it…
AR: Absolutely.
RI: …for the reasons that you talked about. I mean, it’s like if they offer you a free lunch, take it because diversification is apparently not that free lunch anymore because, look at how sort of entangled the indexes are with the top heaviness. And the one that looks to me to be maybe mounting a real stand as the rest of this year goes is the commodity segment broadly, but it’s hard to get commodities to look bullish on a chart if oil isn’t trending up. Yeah.
AR: Absolutely. I think, yeah, like there are lots of forces within the commodities piece with the deindustrialization of Europe, China is growth story not picking up. From a fundamental standpoint, I think there are headwinds, but once again, like, when we take a look deeper into specific types of commodities, there could be upside, specifically when it comes to precious metals like gold.
RI: And like I said, you probably prompted even more questions than I had for you when we started. But let’s now take a step back. Now the folks know that obviously, you are covering macro quite well. And I want to ask you a bit about how you make decisions.
And I think we all just kind of heard that even though you write about individual stocks on Seeking Alpha primarily, that it all comes from syncing with your macro views, which we just heard. But I don’t want to go back just a second because I’m pretty sure that this will be an insightful thing, especially for do-it-yourself investors in the audience. When did you first decide that markets and investing were really a passion for you?
AR: I would say around 2020 to 2021. Prior to that, I was probably investing. I was investing pretty much on an ad hoc basis. I was working in tech, so I understood technology, but I didn’t really understand the underlying business mechanics or the macroeconomic currents. So it was 2020, 2021 when I took an active interest and that interest sort of turned into a full-time passion for me.
RI: And so you did go from Silicon Valley, you basically built a nice career there and then transitioned into investment work. What can you say about the transition? Because I don’t know how common a transition it is, but you certainly have made it and you’re off to obviously a flying start for having done this formally, let’s say, for fewer than five years. It’s hard to tell by reading your work frankly. So obviously, you had a lot of buildup here.
What were the types of things that allowed you to launch that transition so quickly coming out of Silicon Valley?
AR: Sure. I think there are two sides to this. One is like definitely, my background in tech and what I learned from Silicon Valley. I worked there between 2014 to 2019, so that was five years. And during that five years, the U.S. economy was mostly in an expansionary state. Interest rates were mostly at 0%. And the whole economy or the innovation cycle was going through this wave of enterprise cloud, SaaS wave per se. So the overall environment for startups was great, startup employment was great.
Particularly for me, I would say, my three biggest learnings from Silicon Valley experience as a growth leader or as a go-to-market leader really was that it ultimately just boils down to the founder or the management, the vision, the resilience of the vision, but the rate at which you can drive product innovation, find the product market fit, that’s really important.
The second thing I would say is flexibility. Just because we had a strategy document at the beginning of the year, doesn’t mean that we have to follow it through word by word. It is the idea of rapid experimentation, learn, fail, learn, adjust your go-to-market strategy.
And the third part is the financial discipline piece. And when I was there in the Silicon Valley, we were living in an era of rampant funding. But looking back five years or four years later, I see that the companies that were actually like focused on driving operational excellence actually endured this phase.
So I think these are my three core learnings that I actually emulate in my work today as I spearheaded into an individual investor, as a financial writer at this point. And over the course of these last three years, as I have built up my knowledge, I would say, I’ve been heavily influenced by Ray Dalio‘s work, who talks about the macroeconomic debt cycles and things like that. I’m also very much influenced by Aswath Damodaran‘s work, who’s a professor at NYU. He’s also called the Dean of Valuation.
And I think sort of the whole basis of my understanding of evaluating businesses, not just from a numbers perspective, but also from a story perspective is actually derived from the learnings I had from his work. So that’s sort of where I am, how I’m drawing influences from various aspects of my life to stand where I am today.
RI: I really like what you said about the willingness and really almost the insistence on changing course as needed. The two words that I use all the time and have for the longest time are flexible and adaptive.
AR: Absolutely.
RI: Yeah. And flexibility, and I think, look, this is for the Seeking Alpha listeners. And what I see, I probably answered, I don’t know, 1,500 comments or something over the last year, I try to answer everyone.
And what I see consistently is that a lot of folks in, I don’t know if it’s because they’re new to investing or because they’re a little bit more tenured, but this is just their belief system. But they kind of boil everything down to what did you say then? Are you right or are you wrong, as I look at it today?
I actually got a comment from somebody that literally, I mean, when it was probably one of my first articles, I don’t know, like a year-and-a-half ago or something. And I’m thinking, well, I’m a tactical investor. It’s like, if I had written about something a year-and-a-half ago, we’re not writing every single day about the same thing on Seeking Alpha.
So the nature of the platform, I think people should understand, is that you put out your views at the time, they’re your views, you’re not telling anybody else what to do, it’s your opinion, and that the best investors are the ones that don’t say, “Well, I’m taking a stand. This is what I predict.”
I mean, there was a fellow who was one of my influences, Steve Leuthold, now gone, but his firm lives on beyond him. And he used to say that something like the – our predictions are for show, but our asset allocation and our tactical moves are for dough. And I think that sums it up, doesn’t it?
AR: Absolutely, that’s very smart.
RI: So what are some examples of things that you have changed? Well, even this year, okay, at the beginning of the year, I thought this, I may have even written it. And not long after the ink is dry, as they say, you realize, “Hey, maybe something else.” Because this is where position weighting and things like that are so much more important than what you actually own, right?
AR: Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, the way that I sort of go about it at the end of the day. I mean, you had – you’ve already mentioned it. I’m a macro investor and I look at innovation cycles. So when it comes to equity selection, I think there are like two parts to it. There is a how and then there’s a when. I think the how is basically a composition of macro cycles, which is a function of interest rates, innovation cycle, which is more of like a secular force. And at the intersection of this two, we have the profit cycles.
So the way that I actually derive my portfolio or design my portfolio is I actually essentially look at like as a farmer, meaning that I sow the seed, the seed grows into a seedling, into a plant, into a tree that has fruits, and then I harvest it.
So my investment portfolio, the way that I design it is in three categories. I have a garden, I have a crop, and I have a harvest.
In my garden, I essentially start off with initial small positions of companies that I believe can accelerate their profitability over the course of time. In my crop category, I have companies or investments that are full weight because I believe they’re at the peak of their profitability cycle.
And the number three part is harvest. Companies that are nearing their full valuation per my estimates or their profit cycle is decelerating, that is when I start to cut my positioning in those stocks. So that’s sort of my approach.
And when I dig a level deeper, ultimately, it’s companies that I choose to invest in, sit at the intersection of like innovation cycles and macro cycles that either enable or benefit from these kind of forces at play. And there I look once again, similar to what I said from my learnings in Silicon Valley, I look at the management, I look at how they’re going to market, I look at the pace of product innovation, their R&D spend relative to their competitors.
And number three would be, how much — what kind of focus does the management have to drive operational excellence? So that’s sort of like my three categories in which I decide how to choose companies. I can go into details about which sectors and stuff, but I’ll leave that as a follow-up discussion potentially. But like this is sort of how I maneuver the ever-changing world without sort of falling for every little signals at the same time, but looking at the big picture.
RI: Yeah, this is what we call having a structure and a process, which many individual investors need to learn. It doesn’t have to be your process, my process, or anybody else’s process. It just needs to be one that they’re comfortable with. And I think you laid out very nicely.
I’ll also add a couple of things you said in there. First of all, you don’t have to worry about inaccurate farming analogies. I grew up in New Jersey, but close to Manhattan. So I don’t know a darn thing about farming.
However, when my wife and I moved from New Jersey, which is the Garden State, to Florida, which is the Sunshine State back in 1997. And that’s where the Sungarden name came from, because we moved to the Sunshine State from the Garden State.
So I love the farming analogy. Why don’t you give us an example? I do want to ask you about your portfolio construction, kind of working down from that macro level, but you mentioned garden, crop, and harvest, correct, those are the three stages?
AR: Correct.
RI: Okay. So can you give us an example, and if you want, tie this into some articles that you’ve written on Seeking Alpha that you really would like everybody to read as soon as they finish listening to this podcast. I don’t know if you can lay it out this way, but one that is sort of in that garden stage, one in the crop stage, one in the harvest stage. So people can kind of get, if you will, a mini snapshot version of an Amrita Roy portfolio in first quarter 2024.
AR: Sure. So I can talk about my – the three posts that I have chosen to talk about.
So over the last two-and-a-half months, I’ve written about a bunch of tech companies, obviously. In this instance, I’ll talk about three, which is Zscaler (NASDAQ:ZS), GitLab (NASDAQ:GTLB), and Pinterest (NYSE:PINS). And the reason I’m talking about these three companies is because I believe that these three companies are sitting right at the tailwind of AI.
So what do I mean by that? So, so far we have seen this huge CapEx boom in AI, which has really benefited sort of the semiconductor industry or the cloud computing industry and the infrastructure really. But I think where the real value of AI will now percolate through is more on the – who are actually the ones that are benefiting from AI. So in that space, I see these three industries, for example, cybersecurity, DevSec, development security, and consumer tech.
So Zscaler is a cybersecurity company. GitLab is a DevSec company, and Pinterest is a consumer tech shopping, AI, you name it, kind of company. So the secular trend is really, really important for me, A. B, both Zscaler and GitLab are actually also benefiting from this trend in platformization at the moment.
What do I mean by that? We are seeing this trend among customers to move away from ad hoc solutions to like one unified platform. At the same time, we are also seeing 2024 being the year of cost cuts. So when you move to a unified platform, it makes sense from a cost perspective. So both Zscaler and GitLab are also benefiting from this platformization trend.
Number three, the vision of the product. Zscaler, GitLab, and Pinterest have management that are very, very determined to drive product vision. So with Zscaler, which is a cybersecurity company, they have pioneered this technology called Zero-Trust Architecture, which is just a really new way of looking at cybersecurity, especially as companies move away from their old ways of doing business with physical cybersecurity, sort of castle and mode architecture.
GitLab is also really interesting because with GitLab, we are seeing management sort of driving adoption of their ultimate premium tier with specific products that they’re building over there with GitLab Duo Pro, which is an AI-driven coding solution.
So the reason why that is interesting is because they’re seeing enterprises adopt that technology or adopt that subscription to your more. As a result, spend per customer is going up. And spend per customer goes up, the company is gaining economies of scale. Operating leverage expands. Great, right?
And with Pinterest, why I love that company is because it’s just a turnaround story. I mean, we saw like after the pandemic boom was over, the company just saw its monthly active users fall, decline. But the company didn’t freak out or try to cut expenses at that time. The management actually had the vision to see how shopping will evolve with AI and whatnot. And as a result, it doubled down on its R&D. It built this really interesting end-to-end shopping platform, which is now attracting back the users at last. It is attracting advertisers, and it’s allowing it to, sort of, effectively monetize and gain operating leverage.
So I think the product story in all three companies sort of fit with my vision of, the management needs to have a great vision and when it is not working, it needs to know when to pivot.
And the final thing that is common in all three companies, which I look for, is improving operational efficiency or improving operational excellence, which once again, all three management continues to remain committed to driving, expanding margins and managing both the sentiment of both investors and customers at the same time. So those are the three articles. I think this sort of like really symbolizes the way I think, the way I sort of think top down and bottom up at the same time, and that’s my take.
RI: So if — I’m not sure if anybody else listening to this heard the same thing I just did, but I think I now know how you use that Silicon Valley background to succeed in this industry, because everything you just described sounds like the type of thing you might have been discussing with your colleagues and your team back in your Silicon Valley days. And so this is second nature to you.
AR: It is possible. I think I definitely think first in terms of like secular trends, but what has like really helped me, ultimately like drive gains in my portfolio and readjust when obviously errors occur is actually understanding the macro cycle on top of that as well. So it’s been just an amazing learning journey with both positives and negatives, but it just helps you make — it helps you make you a robust investor at the end of the day.
RI: Well, what I think is so interesting about what you’re doing and why I think that you are a must follow, you certainly are for me, is that you could argue that the easy gains in tech this cycle have been made at the top end.
So what about everything underneath? And I’m saying that not as somebody who is a fundamental analyst, because I willingly admit in all my articles, you know what, if you want balance sheet income statement analysis, you came to the wrong guy. But quantitative strategy, and especially the technical piece, and I see in the charts what you are talking about fundamentally. And whenever that happens, it’s…
AR: Magic.
RI: …good stuff. Good stuff.
AR: Absolutely.
RI: Just so for the audience, I’m sure this will be in the show notes, but the symbols on those three, Zscaler’s ticker is…
AR: ZS, GitLab is GTLB, and Pinterest is PINS.
RI: Okay. Terrific. So let’s look forward. It’s sort of a short form. What are some of the biggest opportunities you see? Let’s say beyond the rest of this year, let’s call it 12 months to 18 months, what do you see macro-wise and do dovetail that into why you’re writing about the things that you are writing about because I’m assuming you are not swing trading this stuff. You are buying to try to make money over that type of timeframe.
AR: Absolutely. Happy to share. Like you said, I think the easy or the — yeah, the easy money in tech is probably already made and I fully agree with that. I think where we stand macroeconomically right now, I believe that the last mile in inflation is going to be a hard fight. Because so far the U.S. economy was resilient because of a strong consumer, a strong corporate balance sheet, and favorable liquidity conditions. Those three things are going to turn from tailwinds to headwinds at the moment because we know that the consumer’s savings is mostly dried up, credit card debt is at an all-time high.
In terms of corporate balance sheets, sure, S&P 500 is fine, but look at Russell 2K, look at CRE, Commercial Real Estate, for example, these are real risks when it comes to refinancing the longer the interest rates remain high. And at the same time, the liquidity conditions will no longer continue to remain as a tailwind because the reverse repo barrels are mostly empty.
But at the same time, there are also inflationary forces playing at the same time. There is the fiscal debt. There is the diverging gap between the haves and have nots. So while the have nots are getting squeezed, the haves can continue to spend. So this is sort of like mixing the data a little bit. And we’re also seeing reacceleration in certain parts of the economy like with deal making coming back.
So we really are at this tug-of-war right now between deflationary forces and inflationary forces. And while the market is still pricing in a soft landing, I think that we are going to be toggling between the higher for longer scenario with a mild recession possibility. Because the longer the interest rates remain high, the higher the chances of the economy slowing down, potentially tipping into a recession.
So therefore, I think with the risks building up, especially with the concentration risk in Mag Seven — Magnificent Seven, specifically with companies such as NVIDIA (NVDA), which has 75% earnings growth expectation over the next year, commercial real estate risk at the same time, and the possibility of inflation just like sticking around at current levels, I believe that there are five areas of opportunity that I see and the way that I am allocating at the moment.
Let me describe them to you. The first one, I do believe that AI is a secular trend. And so far, as we talked about, AI — the companies that have benefited from AI are the semiconductor companies or the cloud computing companies. I believe that over the next sort of 12 to 18 months, we will see the gains percolate through the beneficiaries of AI. So more on the lines of cybersecurity, DevSecOps, consumer tech, the articles that I just talked about, A.
B, I do think that over the next 12 to 18 months, we will see upside in both gold and Bitcoin. That’s the second one.
The third piece I’m looking at is just allocating slightly more of my portfolio to defensives as risks of uncertainty grow, so do things like healthcare and staples at the same time. It is also important to note that the valuations in those stocks or those industries is particularly interesting at the moment.
And finally, there are two more pieces of opportunities that I see. The fourth one is oil. No one owns oil at the point it is, but yet if you look down a level below, you see that it is cheap and it is profitable. These companies like ExxonMobil (XOM), Chevron (CVX), they are well-run companies with strong balance sheets and they’re trading at like 12 times forward earnings.
So while I cannot predict what will happen like immediately, I do, I am bullish long-term on oil. And the last final piece that I am allocating to right now is long-term bonds. I do believe that the U.S. economy will see slowdown first before we see the next phase of expansion once again. So I am long TLT.
So these are the five areas we have beneficiaries of AI. So cybersec, DevSecOps, consumer tech, we have gold and Bitcoin, we have healthcare and staples, oil, whether it’s in the form of USO or specific oil stocks like ExxonMobil. And finally, long bonds, TLT. So that’s where my portfolio is right now.
RI: Thank you. I’m so glad you made that distinction between oil, the commodity and oil stocks, because there are so many cases in history where one would do well for a while and the other did not follow suit because sometimes oil stocks or energy stocks like the ones you mentioned, sometimes they’re treated as linked to oil and the price of oil and other times they’re treated as stocks. And so they can’t always fight a down stock market. That’s where indexation and all the other things like that come in.
I’ve been asking you all these questions. Ask me a question, anything you want?
AR: What is it that you are most looking forward to or not looking forward to, like in terms of events this week and how you think the next phase of the market actions look like?
RI: The memory of the dot-com bubble is that you don’t know how high things are going to go. And sure, the top level indexes, the S&P and the NASDAQ are – they’re a little bit over their skis. But look, in 2,000, the sharpest move was the one at the end, and in early 2,000. So, I call it the Empire State Building formation, where it goes straight up and straight down like the needle at the top.
So, that is one possibility that I’m looking for, but frankly, I’m spending more of my time looking sort of underneath, as they say, looking at sectors like the industrials, where there’s a lot of great quality American businesses that make that up. It’s also because I’m an ETF geek, it’s really of the 11 sector spiders. It’s the only one that isn’t top heavy. A lot of 4% positions in there instead of, let’s say (XLK), where Microsoft (MSFT) and Apple (AAPL) are 45%, 46% of it.
And interest rates are not giving a strong read, but as somebody that is long, short, or in between in my approach, I am loving the idea that there’s going to be some separation between the winners and the losers beyond just one sort of crowded group of 7 to 10 stocks. And I think that there will be — I think the rest of this year and the next year is a great chance to exploit that, whether it’s through arbitrage or a variety of other things.
And that’s why I love talking to people like you, not just online, but offline, because you’re covering this whole tech area that to me is just a bunch of charts.
AR: Yeah.
RI: And so I really, really appreciate that you can bring the fundamental underpinning to this. It’s something that frankly, as a strategist and portfolio manager for almost 30 years, I didn’t always have that. And to be able to have this community on Seeking Alpha, whether I’m reading or speaking to people, and especially speaking to Rena when she interviews me, it’s a great community and people should embrace it for that because let’s face it, a lot of the media has become kind of kowtowing to the Google machine, right?
AR: Absolutely agree, absolutely.
